Dr. Laura
Hi, today we're talking about student services and employability, or how University Career Service Centres can add value to the student experience in job search and career management. Inside Higher Education Student rating of University Career Centres found 70% of the students found Career Centres very helpful. 26% found them helpful 40% somewhat helpful, and 70% found them not helpful at all. Changes in societal norms and economic conditions have preceded each paradigm in University Career Services. The post-World War One era focused on vocational guidance for graduates as a result of the GI Bill and the 1940s Career Services provided job placement services in a manufacturing economy. A slow economy and a shift to a retail and service industry in the 1970s and 80s resulted in the Career Counselling and Planning model, emphasizing a strong focus on preparing students for career decision-making and planning. The 1990s bought the.com Boom, engaging employers on university campuses and creating a strong focus on employer relations.

Emerging Technologies and social media advanced a networking paradigm in the 2000s bringing a new level of connectedness between students, faculty, alumni, and employers centers on professional networking. Today, in a social network economy, an integrated model of customized connections and communities extends employability, beyond the walls of university career centers, to an echo system that fully engages the entire network of students, alumni, faculty, employers, families, seasons, Career Coach Experts, and surrounding communities. Social socio-economic changes, technological advances, generational trends, and a global pandemic are the impetus behind the current mission of college career centers, to build meaningful partnerships to develop equitable, and diverse career communities of learners and Networkers focused on helping students create and nurture perfect, purposeful careers through the entire career journey. This will require a critical transformation of College Career Services with increased funding, the elevation of leadership to increase influence, new models and structures, and stronger partnerships. The time to change career centers at universities is now university leadership must have the courage to understand the needs, be prepared to invest in services, and fully support Career Service technology experts and partners. Ed, Any Thoughts?

Ed Samuel
Yes, to all the above. You know, as a career coach, I've worked with countless hundreds of students coming out of college. And I can tell you the stats that you read earlier on in terms of career services having an impact on them, you know, my statistics were less favorable than even yours, in terms of the impact that they've had on them helping them land that first job and so many of the people I talked to, you know, they're still looking for a job six months out of college. And I always ask the question, well, where's Career Services been? How have you leveraged us? The group and oh, yeah, we met with them. It was a 30-minute discussion, and I got some pointers. But that was the extent of it. And, you know, part of the problem, that careers, and by the way, I have a lot of friends who are in career services and leaders in career services.

So I don't want you to think that it's about the people that are leading some of these centers because there are some incredibly talented people. The biggest challenge is just the sheer volume. See as a career coach, when parents hire me to help their son or daughter, land a job out of college, right, the parents are paying me to help them, but I'm giving them one on one counseling, where they need help. And part of the problem, is that they can't spend the time Due to a person's unique challenges, and they do the best they can, because if they try to do that with one, then they have a problem on their hands. Because have they tried to do it with the next one, the next one, they're out of time their days completely consumed.

And that's part of the model that's a bit broken, then then the question is really, how do you fix that? You have this mass model, how do you fix it to make it more specialized for those unique needs? And part of it for me is the training that needs to go on to those students, especially, you know, as they become seniors in college, I'm just not sure it's as simple as, Okay, you go through your classes, and you're getting ready to enter the job market and you go to a short training, at career services in terms of how to do your resume, I could see an entire class devoted, over four weeks just on the resume alone, that's how important it is four weeks, just on LinkedIn alone, that's how important it is four weeks on interviewing, that's how, so what we do the condensed all that down to 30 minutes. And we think that's enough. So those are my initial thoughts.

Dr. Laura
Great, you're in the trenches. So your statistics would be much more valid than Inside Higher Ed, Ruth tell us on the international plane, what's happening.

Ruth Fuente
Again, in my experience in the different universities, I've been teaching the last two years, I have a identify that our students have a lot of questions, a lot of about what they are going to do once they finish their bachelor once they need to get into the job market. Now they don't get to understand what their organizations are waiting for them to or expecting from the students to give to the organization so they are confused about, okay, I'm learning this, how I'm going to implement this in the organization or how I'm going to figure out which organization is the best for me is where I remember to make the match this match between the teams in which I'm going to be part of, and me because I have values, I have my vision, And I tried to let them understand that you need to figure out which organization can give that that you are wanting to have at this moment, probably you're not going to stay to spend your time all your time. In one single organization, you're going to change from different organizations.

So you need to figure out right now, but you want to learn, but you want to develop, but you want to give to the teams in which you are going to be part of and in that way try to make a little research about the organization that you have that for you, that thing that you're expecting, you're not only the only one who is going to interview, you're also going to interview the organization. And you also need to get to know what they want from me. And if I want that, to get that for them. Okay, so I think they need more counseling about what expectations are outside. Once you finish your career, the opportunities that you can have with a career you're starting, because you have a lot of opportunities, you're not going to find one unique job for that bachelor you can find different job positions. So which things do you want, which things do lie the most, which capacities, and which abilities do you have? And you can explore them to be part of a work environment.

Ruth Fuente
So I think they have a lot of depth, but they don't feel they don't have access to someone to let to teach them or to give them clues about how they can make the research and how they can put in contact with people that were in the same situation because sometimes you only need to talk with someone that passes through the same problems that you already pass on some ex-students or something like that, that can give them some insights about what they can do and how they can do things. So, I always try to make a match between the topic I'm teaching and a situation in which edition you are this topic I'm teaching you how you can implement it, how you can use it in real life.

And according with your values, according with your needs, according with the thing that you like, how you can try to figure out which organization can fit with you, that organization that will give you that thing that you're looking for now, why you study this. So, you'll want to work with in that in that sense with the things that you love, you'll often do like no. So, I think here a diagram in the universities I've been working is missing someone or some department that gives them this help for these students to clarify all their doubts. So, they are in the last year of their career, and they still wondering how I am going to integrate my CV, how I can express all the things I know because I have no experience, but I have all of this knowledge. So how to get into my first job? So, they need a lot of help.

Dr. Laura
Yeah, so many important things, you said their Ruth. So, you know, connecting the course, to real-life work experience is something that I do at the university level, in every class, why are you learning this? And here's how it's connected to the real world of work. And then to a couple of very important things, you mentioned there. And Ed and I do career assessments for folks and Ed is the master here.

So I'm going to defer to him after this. But you said some important things. You talked about personal fit to the organizational culture. And culture is the summation of what the business does. And its values. Our career assessment is unique in that it targets values, and then how do you help students understand the multiple organizational cultures and how they fit in? Right? So university career services aren't going deep enough, with this counseling relationship that we do with students? What is purposeful for you? And how do you fit in? And I know you're ready to jump in here

Ed Samuel
Well, you know, there's, there's, there are multiple ways to look at it. One is making sure that they have the right fit before they go to the university or college. So, they're pursuing a major in a career field that alliance best for them. Right from that point. And then, as you know, statistically, at least in the US, 28% of the students will change their majors in the first year, great opportunity for Career Services to jump in, and do the kind of assessments we do to get them back on track. Our assessments tend to look at the DNA of their personality, which is a huge factor in terms of who people are. And just because the parents were a doctor, an IT person, a marketing person, and an accounting person doesn’t mean that they're supposed to be all those things, I see that mistakes are made a lot. The tragedy is when someone is a senior, and I get a phone call from a parent that says Ed, you know, my son's going to graduate this year, and my daughter's going to graduate this year, and they just don't like what they're doing at school. Well, at that point, it's a tragedy, because they've already invested three plus years of their college. And then we ended up doing, an assessment to find out that they have no interest at all in doing this major in this field. And then the ultimate tragedy is when I get a phone call from a mom or dad, six months, eight months out of school, their son and daughter are not working.

And I said, well, why don't we do an assessment and find out that they have no interest at all in pursuing what they just got their degree in. So, the whole area of an assessment is trying to get it early, as early on as possible, but go deep. And that's why our assessment of 550 questions, looks like a deep dive into your personality. In six different dimensions, disk, the traditional disk is four, we go six, we show some dimensions as well. And then we take a look at likes, then we take a look at people skills, at that age, and then values. And our whole goal is to integrate it all to come up with the best choices. So at least its eyes are wide open. So Laura, the better we can do that. And I just wish the Career Services groups would have the types of assessments we have. But you know, again, we have a challenge, because when we do an assessment, right, that's a 38-page report. And it takes somebody who's a trained and certified consultant, the walk students through that to explain the report, many times Career Services will have a quote, the free assessment, 100 questions, and that's going to guide us and it's no different than the other tools out there.

What color are my parachute and all the other books that are out there. In the end, you have to sit down with somebody that has helped hundreds of hundreds of people interpret that report for that particular student. And here are your choices. And I don't care what you have an interest in. But I care as a consultant as a coach and I'm going to tell you what you might most likely fit you, and where I think you're going to find yourself getting yourself in trouble. Oh, and by the way, you might have an interest more as a hobby than not as a career journey. So you have to come to segment this out meet with somebody and spend the time with that student. And does that mean to pamper the parents potentially?

And then here's something another interesting twist. Maybe career services should hire organizations like ours and a team of 30 people that I have to come in and have the parents pay a little bit more as part of their tuition to sit down with someone to spend that quality time. And it may not be the person in career services that does it. So you talked about partnerships earlier on, where the partnerships with people like you know, my team, to be able to help Career Services with these issues so that when it comes to graduation, they're often running with a passion to follow what they want to follow. So that's just one. That's one piece of it, Laura.

Dr. Laura
Very important. It's not a one-hour visit with a counselor, right? And I know you spend multiple hours, it's a journey. It's a process of discovery. So it's important, as you said, Ed to get it as early as possible, right, so that we can begin that journey, you know, I'm studying the right things for where I potentially want to go. That brings us, again, back to partnerships across enterprises. And globally, it's important because there's opportunity in other countries, right, Spain, Jordan, India, because the world is flat now.

And universities do not have the exposure from a global perspective, like some of us have here, to not help these students navigate these, which brings us to networking. Okay, Ed and I are very passionate about networking. And, in all my classes, start the students connect with me on LinkedIn, start networking. Now, don't wait till you graduate four years from now or three years from now. Because the job search space is very, very different, even post COVID. And I know you're an expert in that area, you might want to jump in here. And then Ruth, I'd like to hear what your perspective is coming from Spain and Mexico is it the same or is it different?

Ed Samuel
Well, you know, I couldn't make this comment 25 years from now, 25 years ago, 20 years ago, even 10 years ago. But I think that the resumes enough. Hate to tell you about the resume is no longer enough. What you what students have to have is a one-two punch, and everyone's looking for it, especially for a salaried position. You know, LinkedIn has 750 million users 174,000,270 million just in the US alone. But you have to remember that 80% of any recruiter is worth their salt, at least in the US. And I'll be curious what Ruth has to say. In her space, they use LinkedIn to find people. It's not just people applying for jobs. So, my point is that students have to understand that the resume is incredibly important. And I'd certainly like to elaborate on that a little bit later, Laura. But then LinkedIn is equally important. And there's a one-two punch because I've led recruiting teams, I've been a corporate recruiting leader and a multibillion-dollar firm.

I understand how important resumes are. But I also understand how LinkedIn is phenomenally important right now. So, students have to be trained. It's no longer just a good resume. But it's also a great LinkedIn, in that you can have that one-two punch working. Students have an advantage going into the marketplace and that students who only focused on the resume, and not a strong LinkedIn profile that showcases how smart they are, how good they are, how integrated they are, and how consistent they are. They have a disadvantage. And if you can get those two together, they're going to be in a much better place in terms of landing a position coming out of school. There are other factors involved. Don't get me wrong, because it's almost you got to be great LinkedIn and a poor resume. That doesn't work either. Right. I'm talking about a great LinkedIn and a great resume.

The most recent study on LinkedIn by the way says that if your LinkedIn is so so versus somebody you're competing with a college student coming out of school, is a great your that college students' LinkedIn will be looked at eight times more by employers and recruiters than the one that was so so. Forget about the one that's just an empty shell. Right? So I'm here to say that Career Services has to think about changing its model into a one-two punch and get away from the notion that resumes get the resume down and apply for jobs. And that's enough it that's, that's almost that kind of thinking is dangerous right now, in a career services organization, based on my experience with dealing with 1000s of people just dangerous. It's a one-two punch, Laura.

Dr. Laura
We are in a social network economy. And that's how we're finding jobs today, Ruth!

Ruth Fuente
For sure. We are the in-network area in which, to whom you're connected, that will give you a lot of opportunities, and not only connecting, making this relationship and working on that, we can look at it Yeah, we connect, but sometimes we only connect and that's it. But what happens next, start a conversation say hello, say Thanks for accepting me, these little things will make the difference between the rest of the people that all that is only connecting. Also, if you send a recipe by LinkedIn, you can send it but in many cases, you are being personally affected by the algorithm by codes, if they detect that you have the keyword your continue. If not, you're not continuing. So sometimes the resume isn't seen by people is seen by machines by codes, guys, so you need to do something else to trespass, these barriers that you have, you don't have a cv, a resume for me it's fantastic.

And that can pass these codes, you need to do something else to attract the attention of the recruiters now, you send their resume by LinkedIn getting into contact with the people that is a is opening that position in LinkedIn, you connect with this person, try to get in touch with this person to communicate to we need to communicate even if we are not facing to face, we already we all right now learn how to communicate with other people, even if we cannot be face to face. And nowadays, diversity and these new ways of working that you don't need to be in a certain place. You don't need to be even in the same country in the same city. So we need to know how to connect by the network. Okay, so that's important.

And it's important not only for applying for jobs but also for improving the skills that also help you if you are afraid of talking with people you don't know, this is a good way to challenge you to try to train these abilities. You don't need to see the people, you start sending messages, and someone is going to answer you. So this will give you more confidence. Oh, I read one on one answer. Okay, so I love to continue. So if you just start doing these from the beginning of your career with your bachelor's, you're at the end, you will be an expert in contacting and you will be an expert in doing these connections that are going to give you value, not only a number in LinkedIn that you know, 100, 200 people know how many of these people you talk with. That's important.

Dr. Laura
You’re talking about creating relationships through the LinkedIn network and other LinkedIn networks, which is very, very important. Start right away. You did talk about some other things that but like beating the applicant tracking system, right? You know, that's training on itself for a two-hour session. Level one, level two, and level three, right? I mean, it's the way we get jobs today is just so different. And my experience has been one foot in higher ed for 15 years. And in this career space, myself.

Dr. Laura
I find resistance at the university level to wanting to partner with folks like myself and Edie, there's a little bit of resistance there. They're not comfortable with it yet. And it needs the real needs a real overhaul. Career Services are underfunded, at the universities, they don't have time. They have 20,000 students and they got five people on staff. They don't have the time to service. So this is what I'm talking about innovating in this industry partner with folks like Ed myself, and you, Ruth to help folks navigate this very different career space, right? Create a partnership and connections and communities like the R one to optimize your career power hour for college students, and I can see it coming now. Thursdays at 11

Ed Samuel
You're right, right. Yeah, just yet. That's great I'm making a note of that.

Dr. Laura
So this is a whole new world. For Career Services in a whole new world of work, Ruth, you talked about that as well. The world is flat and opportunity is everywhere globally. And how do we share that information to students at the university level?

Ruth Fuente
Yeah, we need to join more at these companies, at these organizations and universities, by tradition, they are separated, we educate, we give knowledge, and that's our job. And organizations with jobs, we have opportunities to put that in practice, but they need to work together, they need to make a more a more emphasis in that university is the first step you're going to continue learning, you're not just never end learning. Okay, so we need to join both areas and work together to give real opportunities to our students to develop all the skills that they need to develop.

Dr. Laura
That's a beautiful Ruth, because that's bridging the gap between higher education and corporate or industry, which we'd known has been east as East-West as West and East the two will never meet. You know, we're starting to see some collaboration here because students are entering the workforce, and the industry is complaining, that they don't have the skills we need. So again, this continual learning your career services, that university doesn't stop after the student graduates and gets job one. It's managing through a career. Ed comments on that?

Ed Samuel
Yeah, absolutely. You know, we're talking about landing that first job, it's a lot of times landing, the first job may not be the best because it's just a job. And sometimes the parents are so happy that their son or daughter just landed the job, right? But sometimes I speak about this fact, they speak about this on my radio program, this coming Saturday, in Philadelphia, at eight o'clock, about how women, especially, because it's been International Women's month, and day and week, where, when you land that first job, sometimes that first job, can put a woman, especially, behind the whole rat of the gate. And then the question is, how could that happen? Well, because they went up to that first job.

But if they networked Well, if they do some of the things that I subscribe to as a career coach, thoughtfully, as a senior, they're not jumping at any employee who walks into the room to give the job offer, they're gone go target the best company for the best job at the higher salary. I promise you, the parents who have hired me to help their son or daughter, as a senior ends up landing their first job at a higher salary than the person who just says yes to the first job offer. But then what happens is that if you say yes to the first job offer and forget about using someone like me, six months from now, a year later, they're laid off, they don't know what they want to do they want to go to that next job, then they need help.

Some of the universities that I know of them, some of the larger ones, especially do have what they call alumni, career coaches, they seem to do a better job of bringing people into counsel people that way. But at that point, it's kind of after the fact. But still, they do a better job there than in career services. But for some that Alumni Services, I guess, our dotted line are connected to career services. And sometimes alumni leave that work independent of career services. So, there's another group of resources that colleges try to throw at this problem after students graduate and go into the job market or they're struggling well, here are some people that they try to line up. So, I know that that's one aspect of what they try to do. I'm not sure how well that's working necessarily.

Dr. Laura
Again, that's another area where we need to have this integration. I serve on the board of directors of a non-profit that educates Career Services at university folks. And they complain all the time where there's a lack of funding, and there's a lack of collaboration internally. I mean, if you're a big university, you got 1000s of people working at some top-notch sharp organizations, build this relationship where there's coaching and mentoring through career trajectory, right through the Alumni Services. So that's a great point. Ruth

Ruth Fuente
For sure we need, to create a kind of support not only for the beginning, not only for the first year but also for the next not to give that feeling to our students that they can start in one place in one organization. But that, in that moment, if you even identify that doesn't fit with you, and you can change, it's not a problem. If you don't find in your first job, the job of your life, okay, you need to try you need to test you need to experiment, you need to start as soon as possible. I also recommend them to start doing some internships to start getting into the organizational companies forever, as soon as possible, you can find internships almost in any company nowadays.

So as soon as you start, you're going to see the reality you're wanting to figure out if that fits with you and if the thoughts that you have about starting your career are in the way that reality is given to you the opportunities. So you can try you can test your journey to worry a lot about I need to find my job in the first step, no. Most of us didn't find that are all have lives in the first one, we need to experiment, we need to try different things till we find this is my job. This is my place in life now. So I recommend all the students to try as soon as possible. Different things, different companies, different environments, different cultures. In that way, you are going to be more open, and you're going to figure out soon, which are the best things and or the best job for you.

Dr. Laura
What are two important things you said there I know, Ed, you've had 28-29 different jobs, I haven't had that many, but it takes a while to figure out your flow zone? Right. So career services and career coaches and executive coaches can help you find your flow zone, you know, your purposeful career. Love that.

Ed Samuel
Many times it's a journey, right? So yes, I give talks about this whole topic of when to reassess your career. And I think I cover about 13 Different times when something's going to come at you. And you know, it could be 25 years old, it could be 28 years old, but 13 different times in your career where something's going to come at you that that that you weren't counting on the weren't expecting, and you're forced to change, or opportunities that will present themselves where there they can reassess the career to change. So, one's a little bit more defensive, and the other one's offensive. And people will have choices throughout their careers, right, until they get to that point where, you know, you find this perfect match between who they are, their skills, what they love to do, their values. And then here's this amazing opportunity, and it all comes together. And sometimes we call that the dream job, right, where everything's happening.

And it's not necessarily just about the money, it could be a non-profit role where you're caring for people, or it can be, you know, a corporate executive, it could go in all directions, right? But, you know, Lauren, I wanted to just comment, on one of the mistakes that I have got that I see made, and it's not talked about as much as I would like to see in career services. And this is just across the board, and I work with some amazing universities everywhere. if the students going to be accounting majors, makes it the sooner they can start doing internship work in the accounting field, the better they will be positioned as a senior to be grabbed by an employer. My statistics are very sad. For the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds, maybe 1000 of student resumes I've seen as seniors, I would tell you 70%, maybe it's a hair more, who have not done an internship in the very field they went to school for to me it's a tragedy. Because what happens is that that or if they do internship work, it's as a senior for two months during the summer.

When people I'm coaching started as a freshman-sophomore, to three months to three months as a junior as a senior, and what they could put on their resume graduating from a university or college. It puts them in a position that just outweighs everything the other students have done and in some cases, the other students are smarter and better, but because they didn't do the internship, where, and again, some of this is it's just they're not being coached well, because when I look at a seniors resume, and I see they're in accounting and marketing, and I look at it through Well, what work did you do during the summer?

Why work at, you know, my uncle's coffee shop as a barista? What do I say to that? How do I turn that into a set of accomplishments to make a future employer know that they're committed to that industry to that field the work? It's very challenging. So, I'm thinking like, you know, you know, I'm writing my second book, as you know, but I'm thinking there might be another book that I need right now that says, okay, here are the 20 things a college student should never do as a freshman, if they want their career to be optimized, leaving school.

And one of them is, don't do it, you know, do no intention of where we're thinking that, you know, just because you were the and please don't take this wrong, but you're the event chairperson of the sorority house, that somehow every year you being the event chairperson that's us ridings house can be placed doing an internship in your field of study. And some people believe that I talked to, and it's a non-starter, sorry, a nonstarter nothing against sorority houses or anything like that. But that's nice to do as a volunteer down below in the resume. It shouldn't be the premier work that you've done. So not that I don't feel strongly about this topic lower. But it's a mistake that I see made, at least in the US. I don't know about you, Ruth.

Ruth Fuente
Well, from my own experience, I started seeing the third semester of my career, doing internships for internships in my field. I studied psychology, so I made internships in the clinic, I made internships in human resources, I make a leadership team, working with an outie sound, children's, so I do the internships, but about my field to identify which area of psychology was very for me for my abilities, for my capacities and for the things I wanted to do in the future.

So I always recommend that do internships but for sure about your field about what you want to do about the job you want to reach once you finish your career not working by working, okay, it's the same if you are looking for a job, even if it's an internship, you are looking to some place in which you can use the knowledge that you are getting to put it into practice. So if you want to be an accountant and you go to be a barista, something is not in the same way now that the objective is not the same.

So we are I my, the message of doing an internship as soon as possible, do an internship, but we were thinking which type of internship, which company, what I'm going to read from that internship, but I'm going to learn from this internship, okay, because at the end is experienced and then you can show to the to your future employer. But it's not about the field that you want to work in. You cannot present it because it's not going to happen. So, a mechanical internship is interesting is important, but you need to think about which type of internship in which company and with which objective you are doing that internship.

Dr. Laura
Yeah, beautiful. So we're talking about strategic targeted approaches to a career early in your university experience. So that's very important. So these early internships can help folks understand is this my space is this where I want to be or I do not want to be an accountant, right and help we can help pivot them before they spend 10s of 1000s in the wrong degree, right Ed, and also create and establish relationships in that discipline or in that space that could follow them as they graduate and leave. This brings us back to again, this collaboration between higher ed and industry on internship opportunities and jobs, so I know our UniRank system You know, is going to have that as a ranking component. How well does the university do with career services and employability? And folks will be able to use that tool, parents students will be able to use that tool to help navigate this very complex, rapidly changing job search and career space. Any last thoughts or comments? Ed? Ruth?

Ed Samuel
Well, you know, just one quick add on, we have to remember a lot of companies that I worked for one guy led the effort for several years, have formal internship programs where college students can join those programs as early as a freshman-sophomore, and stay with that employer through that activity, right through the senior year. And those colleges have a tremendous placement rate at a very significant higher salary. So, the big four accounting firms, I was privileged to go through their internship program in detail. And those students can get into that kind of a program early on it, stay with it, not jump, not leave, stay with it, congratulation guess who gets picked. And those salaries tend to be at the higher level, I happen to be with a medical device company, and we targeted schools that were that specialized in engineering.

And we tried to bring those students in early. And those students that stayed with us had a huge advantage over anybody who didn't work with us in terms of placements right out of school. So let me just argue that Career Services groups, finding more of those, and putting students, matching students into those types of programs would be amazing. Now, I just want to comment, a couple of couple more comments. One is, I do see 70% of a resume coming out of college or university, we ended up rewriting, there's still a huge gap between the Career Services Group not understanding some of the most basic elements that need to be on a resume that's missing, that puts students in a disadvantage. We have to get away from this thought that having a one-page resume, here's the format, fill it out, you got it done. Looks okay. We're done.

We will spend three, or four hours with a student who's a senior on their resume. Three hours, let's just say three hours. We have to kind of improve that resume. And something as simple as accomplishments, not being called out or quantified. The internship program work that they did is just a shame, that Career Services can't pick up on something so fundamental. And certainly, I'm an author of a book called optimize your resume do's and don'ts. I take the book, I tried to get it into college bookstores, I beg you and if and if I had all the money in the world, I give them a book for the college students to read it, just do chapter six, I beg you because the quality of their resume will just improve dramatically. And then one other final point that I want to make is that I work I have several clients, even right now, from some of the most well-named Ivy League schools in America. And who are unemployed, graduated, unemployed. And I asked them, I said, you work, you're with some of the best universities in the world, they should have the most resources, the most everything.

And what happened to us the stories I'm told, I just, I can't even speak. If that was the level of effort and commitment to a person to help them land a job. There's way too much credence given into, well, you know, we're the name school, you're from this named Ivy League school, therefore, you'll just get a job because you came out of that school. That's not necessarily always true. And my last point is that any student who goes to graduate and let's say they get a degree in philosophy, then they find out that there's not a lot of jobs of philosophy that can pay your rent in New York City, come out of school.

And those students have to make a pivot to a different career, not because they don't love philosophy, it's because there are no jobs there! Career services are completely adequate, including the coaches that I've seen the alumni coaches and helping those students make a pivot to get employed. Not because they don't love philosophy is because there's nothing there and there that now they have to make a choice. Have it they go to career services, they don't know what to say they don't know what to do. Because a pivot is something way beyond what we're even talking about. We're talking about a straight line, how now make a pivot? And what kind of support the students get. So those are just a couple of closing thoughts, Laura, and I are very happy that you allowed me to give you a couple of my ideas today.

Dr. Laura
Agree, so again, you're focusing on this relationship as we navigate education and career long-term, and from multiple different perspectives. Ruth, any last thoughts?

Ruth Fuente
Yeah, for sure. We need to put the focus not only on how things have been done in the last years, okay, but things are also changing. And there's no one line, there's no one way of reaching the objective, there are differences, we are facing a huge diversity we are having in our universities, people from different countries, with different objectives, with different thoughts on with different needs. And we need to manage that scene from the universities and the organizations. And we need to work together, we need to figure out how to help these people. Okay, do you love philosophy, as I was saying, but do you love it? What you're going to do with that? Okay, you can study that for sure. And you can do it because it's your hobby your passion and your fear of doing this. But what do you want to do? How far do you want to work to survive your life to survive in this in our culture that needs money at the end of the month, okay?

So we need to think of that one thing as our passion. One thing is what you love one thing is what you want to do when you have time the spending. But the other thing is, we need to make money. In the end, the reality is we have bills, and we have to pay them. So, we need to understand which way is going to be the better way for each of us. Okay, we can do things that we love, we can do things that we like, but we need to be realistic in the end, okay, I can survive with this, okay, I go for it, I won't stop till I reach it. If I cannot do this, there are different options. For example, okay, I love and I will study psychology, as I told you, and then I figured out that I love to be in the academia, okay to be part of this area. So, I did a Master's, I don't need to do to study a huge battle or again, to start from zero, no, there are options, we have more options.

Nowadays. We have courses, we have Masters, and we have different types of programs that can help us to see or to study our passions. Okay, we cannot survive with this, I do another career, another bachelor's about another topic that helped me pay the bills. And then once I have my bachelor, say, I get it, I enroll in these courses that helped me with this hobby with this passion that I have. And I don't need to get frustrated because I have the opportunity to learn and to study and to do it. After all, I want it.

But I have the other areas of my life, it’s covered. So I think that's one thing. And the other one is that we need to join the academia and the organizations we need to work together. Because our applications have needs, and the academic can solve, can cover those needs. But if they don't talk, we are not connected. And we are not doing the things for the same goal that we want. Now that is one way if given the knowledge to our students to get into the organizations and organizations to receive people, will prepare to do the job that we have for them. So, we need to join these big areas and work together to figure out how we can't help the students and the needs that they have nowadays because things have changed. And we need to change a lot.

Dr. Laura
Yes, so to sum up, so we should say I'm Dr. Laura going to predict this huge transformation in career services on the university side, a significant collaboration between industry and academia, and seasoned career and executive coaches like Ed. And this is going to be tracked in UniRanks. So, it will become the expectation of universities very soon. Thanks, Ed. Thanks, Ruth. It was a pleasure having this conversation with you