Angelika
Ladies and gentlemen. I'm honored to welcome you to the very first World Higher Education, Ranking Summit (WHERS) and WHERS brings today the most prominent change makers leading academics, leaders in their field that will share invaluable knowledge to help you and your institution go forward and implement the best practices and best ideas. Today's topic is vital because today we will talk about “Diversity and internationalization in Academia” this is an extremely important topic for everyone, regardless of where they come from.

Discussion Panel:

Dr. Georgette Zinaty
Today. we have some extraordinary speakers joining us from different parts of the world. Most distinguished academic leaders in their fields are extraordinary human beings.

I would like to introduce you to Dr. Georgette. is actually joining us from Canada and Dr. Georgette. She is currently the Executive Vice President at ‘Corporate Class Inc.’ and practically for their center for diversity and inclusion. Dr Georgette Zinaty is currently the Executive Vice-President at Corporate Class Inc and Practice Lead for their Center for Diversity and Inclusion. Dr Zinaty has been an executive and senior leader at the University of Toronto. An alumna of the University of Toronto, Dr Zinaty holds a Bachelor's degree in English and Political Science, a Master of Business Administration degree from the University of Liverpool, a Master’s of Science from the Henley School of Business and a certificate on Leading Strategic Change within Organizations from Harvard University. She holds a Doctorate in Business Administration—a joint program with the Rotman School of Business and the Henley School of Business. Dr Zinaty’s research focuses on business leadership, diversity, inclusion and the future of leadership. Dr Zinaty is also a Professor at Western University as well as the Rotman School of Business.

Dr Zinaty has worked at the University of Toronto for more than 2 decades, where she has numerous leadership positions, and most recently she served as an executive director of advancement in the faculty of engineering. What is more: Dr Georgette she's extremely involved in everything that is related to leadership and empowering women. So, she also recently launched a nonprofit called “Women Helping Empower Women” and published a book on the society and Viscosity of Women, and others in leadership called “Why not you?” Where 100% of the profits go to the nonprofit. She has started to help millions of women around the world. It's a great pleasure to have you here

Dr Peter Rios:
I would like to introduce you to our next speaker our guest Dr Peter Rios is the Founder of “Peter Rios Consulting”. He has served diverse organizations including businesses, religious institutions, government, higher education, and non-profits in the areas of organizational diversity, equity and inclusion, leadership development and innovation.

His extensive experience and doctoral education in strategic leadership and intercultural studies have made him a sought-out keynote and conference speaker. Rios has been invited to speak and train leaders, nationally and internationally. In the United States Marines Corps, he gained global leadership experience while stationed in Okinawa Japan and South Korea.

Dr. Peter is a lecturer at Penn State. He has served as Vice President at two universities and is the author of another incredible book: “Untold Stories”. The leadership experience in higher education. it's a great honor to welcome you here, Dr Peter, thank you so much for your presence.

Dr. Michael Leslie:
I'd love to introduce you to Dr Michael Leslie. He is an associate professor in the College of Journalism and communication at the University of Florida. Dr Michael teaches courses and conducts research on international and intercultural communication, ethics, and leadership. Professor Leslie has taught, lived, and conducted research in Asia, Europe, Latin America, and Africa, including China, India, Belgium, France, Mexico, Cuba, Brazil, Zambia, Cameroon, South Africa, Mozambique and Angola.

Professor Leslie served as Senior Foreign Expert in the School of English and International Studies at Beijing Foreign Studies University, in the fall of 2013, teaching courses in leadership and intercultural communication. He has also taught at Nanjing University of Aeronautics and Astronautics and the Jaypee Institute of Information Technology, in India.

He was a scholar of mass communication at the University of Cameroon, knowing that Dr Leslie also has his own consulting firm called a ‘Gemini Consulting’, and he has been a great mentor to many people around the world. This is just brilliant because today we have a really amazing group of people that have been working all their lives on issues of internationalization and diversity.

The first question is why diversity and internalization should be at the forefront of every institution across the globe.

Dr Zinaty:
I can go first if you want. I can start Well, I feel like, the future of every organization and every university is global. I mean, every university is talking about the fact that we want more, and we want to recruit more students. We want to be able to be more global. Then this is really the makeup of every future. University, and for us to be able to do that for academic institutions, and have students be welcome, feel welcomed. We have to be able to understand diversity and be inclusive, and that actually means that you know we have to have, you know, equality inclusion in terms of even how like recruiting them and thinking about from the recruitment process, to how we bring them in in terms of all of that, but also this from the staffing perspective, from the teaching perspective, from changing the mindsets of how the people that are not only educating from the administrative staff and onwards. So, the reality is: “Education is now more globally accessible.” You know we see this I mean certainly in Canada, the way the that the education has been changed. Canadian institutions rely a lot on more on international students than they ever have twenty to thirty years ago. So, for academic institutions, this is really critical. and certainly, if you want to become a top tier institution, if you want to be an institution that attracts the very best mind to the world, we know the very best mind to the world is more minds that come from all over the world, and diverse perspectives. To do that, you have to be an institution that actually attracts that in order to attract that, you've got to be a place that actually has, a mindset and a place that makes people feel welcome. So, if your organization and your institution do not look like the people that are going to come, then they're going to feel, welcome, and they don't feel like they belong.

So, I think from that perspective is really critical to make sure that how you recruit is important. But what you're what the makeup of your the people that work at your institutions look like and I’m sure my colleagues here can contribute more to that start there, and let them feel.

Dr. Peter Rios
I'd like to build off of that I think That's a great point Dr Zinaty. when we think about internationalization and diversity, the first thing that comes to mind why institutions should be, if not already moving in that direction, is because we already see many institutions either going bankrupt, merging or having to close their doors in some way or another, with technological advances and globalization as my colleague just expressed. I mean there's really no other way to move forward in a globalized society. We are creating global citizens and if you want to be competitive in this market space, you know not just and it doesn't necessarily. I would like to say this carefully you know it matters where you're at around the world but also how you address your diversification. So you can receive international students on your campus. If you have online education, then everything that you would do in a brick and mortar needs to translate and be contextualized in your online space and I'm, sure we can talk more about that later and for me, I would focus on, you know, in particular, on the leadership of the institution, as doctors. Zinaty said, You know, does your leadership represent the student body that you are recruiting and bringing in, you know, are there women and Lgbt. Are there people from bicultural and bilingual spaces? People who understand the social economics of students and the context from where students come from.

It's very important, because, as we talk about a sense of belonging, I see myself in your institutions. Therefore, I feel like I belong I can be myself, right? it's one thing to come to a place, but you have to assimilate another thing. If you come to a space and you could be totally unique and still be long. I think that's the intersection where and I think that's the good spot where institutions should try to achieve or try to attain where students faculty, and staff administration can be totally themselves and still belong. And so, we want that we want the diversification of our people. I want Dr. Michael Dr. Zinaty to be themselves in the institution. You speak 5 languages great, bring it you know you you're an expert in this field or that feel your cultural background.
And so, I think that it's that's all imperative for an institution

Dr. Michall Leslie
I would just add one other perspective I hope on this question and that's that. I remember some time ago. This is ancient history for some of you, but you University of I think the University of Texas had challenged affirmative action at the Supreme Court, right? Someone at the University of Texas, anyway, challenged it, and Harvard University submitted an amicus brief supporting affirmative action, and the basis for the brief was Harvard. Said, “Look, we need this because our students and (I think they were talking about the majority of the students. The white students) need to have exposure to the rest of the society that we didn't.
They're not going to be able to work with Latino communities they won't be able to work with black communities if we don't have any black and Latino leadership at the level of an elite institution like Harvard University.” So, I'm mentioning this because our own students, the majority of students at most of our universities are. I'm not very verbal at first, and at the community college level, and so on. You know, at we have where I’m at the University of Florida, I think there's a 6% or 7% are African-American. I believe the Latino percentage is higher, closer to 9%. The white students at the institution are the ones who benefit from having those minority students there. In the same context that when we internationalize the great it's great to have that diversity, but it's really important for the majority of students to be exposed to diversity, they're the ones that are going to have to in the corporate setting or in the educational setting to have to relate, to have to understand. It's not about assimilating right It's about deepening our understanding of the world that we live in. So that even as if like. Say this as an American even as we are in our own country we understand that the world doesn't necessarily look like us. So that's my addition to what's been talked about.

Angelika:
These are, really important and it's super important to understand that everything comes from the leadership. And that leadership of the institution is a priority to showing an example to students to staff. How to counter inequality, and how to advocate for diversity and internationalization. In your experience, did you see this practical situation where students who're actually members of staff and leaders in their university were not prepared for internationalization? Because sometimes we see that okay, they're accepting the students from different backgrounds. But when it comes to actually learning how to deal with them, and understanding them, what still is the biggest challenge in institutions, according to your experience.

Dr. Peter Rios:
Thank you well, I'll take a stand on that one first if that's okay.
So, I could speak from the United States context. but I think globally, this has relation. You know, one of the main things is like Dr Michael was saying about helping the majority culture white students in terms of when they leave the institution and obviously, there are adult students, so on and so forth. You know sometimes you will be interacting with other people.
I think one of the main challenges that we are facing is that you know for so long. white supremacy reined right and so and so. Now you have many I wouldn't say challenging but you know we are in some ways challenging white supremacy, white privilege, male privilege, and dominance, and so there's the change we have women CEOs. we have folks from the LGBTQA+ plus community, you know, leading and serving strategic institutions. We have people who are bilingual, people who are diverse not only in race and ethnicity but their background, language, culture, religions and religious perspectives.
I mean it's very diverse. and so historically we had one group leading, and now you have many people that doors are opening, and we continue to diversify. So that brings change and human nature naturally, I think, is to resist change so I think anytime you're challenging, disrupting white supremacy. White privilege, or what I'd like to call the 3P’s “Privilege, Power, and Profit”. That brings up some complications. And so from a leadership perspective, leaders need to be ready, need to be competent, sensitive, cultural humility, and cultural responsiveness, utilizing these skill sets and also work in teams to move the Institution along, and it takes time. Some of us are, you know, tired of waiting? This keeps it real. Some of us are tired of waiting so we don't want to hear.
You need to be patient, just sit there. We can be patient and move, and so I think that's where we need to work together and collectively, to think about institutions that were not created for “ME” in mind. For example, with me in mind, the rightmost institutions in the US and many globally, were not created by a Latino from New York City and mine. so now you have people like me, and other people act as institutions, and so we need to rethink policies. We need to rethink a lot of historic structures and the way things are done. For example, and I’ll leave it here. for my colleagues to join in the way. We search, so let's say you have a search for a faculty member. Well, who's on that search committee and who do you have on that search committee that will mitigate bias that will mitigate discriminatory behaviors or thoughts?
You know you don't want all of the same type of people or culture to be in your search committee, because you know we know from business literature. You'll get what's called group think and everybody thinks the same. And so, we need diversity in that search committee. We need policies, maybe a cheap, diversity officer somebody from human resources that's going to help us to mitigate our own, because we all have biases, and so I’ll leave it there.

Dr. Georgette:
I was just gonna add to that you know it's interesting in Canada, so I don't know how many of you are familiar with like. So, I live just outside of the city of Toronto. There I'm not mistaken is actually the most globally diverse in the world. So, we actually have over 168 languages that are spoken in our city alone.
If you come in, if you wanna experience a multitude of cultures and backgrounds come to Toronto, and you'll see it all. So, it's really great So if you go to something like the University of Toronto, or one of the universities that are in the Greater Toronto area.

That's what you'll experience so universities in Canada, particularly in the Toronto region Have had to really rethink what it is in terms of how they do both, integration. So, when students come in, how do we do that. So, one of the things that I'll give you is an example, we know one of the areas. Certainly, when I was at the University of Toronto what we saw was this great influx of students coming in from mainland China and so the question was, How do you bring them in? How do you get them? Not to just recently, but just get them accustomed to a whole new culture that they were not used to. The University created a program where they would come in literally from.
You know, this spring May, and spend four months living on campus before September actually started to teach them on how to use the subway system and teach them and to teach them, how to open a back account because that is not what they would have been used to in our countries. Just so that when September started it wasn't a culture shock, but the other part of it was even things like the University had to create spaces for students who were Muslim that had prayer and our buildings were not designed for things to have to go, and you know, wash, and prepare like 30 years ago. That is not how buildings were designed, and we were not necessarily accommodating for things like this. You also have indigenous. you know students and so again, there are things like smudging ceremonies and things that maybe people are not familiar with. But now, with our truth and reconciliation, we're now doing things like this, that we have never done before. So, there's a lot of things as you know my colleague Peter said that we were not you know, but we're moving, and things are changing, and universities are trying to accommodate.

There's a question that you know just becoming more familiar, and from that perspective, not just for the students, but also for educating and hiring. You said, you know, in terms of our faculty also recognizing those positions are being hired. Are we actually creating those? and with hiring committees also? And of course, we can talk about blocked, room and that's a whole other theory I have, and we know that when we go to blind improvement, we hire better. That when we take off all of the names, and things we tend to be a lot more diverse in our hiring and I'll stop there.

Dr. Micheal:
Thank you both Peter and Georgette. I think I want to actually address the question at Angelica that what are some of the things that have not changed, perhaps, or that are still barriers. I'm at the unit. Well start with you know the University of Florida is a land grant institution in the South. So, we have a different experience than the one that Dr Georgette has been talking about. It's admirable what you're doing there, in Toronto where we're very slow to change and so at the level of, for example, fact, you know where there are some of the barriers that the level of staff, a lot of our staff I would say the majority are monocultural. So, when they're dealing with international students, when they're dealing with minority students, there they have a perspective that is basically you need to find some way to fit in here, this is the way we do things here. And so, it makes it quite challenging for the international students and the force for the minority students. That's one of the reasons why some of our numbers in the international piece have changed dramatically because international students bring in cash right so it's a little more sensitive to that. But not that much so it's still you must find a way to fit in.

Another piece of this, besides the administration in our institution, the high administration level is pretty much lily-white or lily-white female. So, that also add in terms of perspective and understanding I mean that's also there is as a barrier. If you would, and then, of course, you know faculty have had the opportunity to travel internationally. But I'm not certain that the travel itself has produced a shift or transformation in their perspective about who they are, or I'd like to make a note of this Peter's privileged power and profit. They see themselves as the arbiters of the way academics should be and how students should be trained and it's then you know it's an ethnocentric model. If you would. So, I think those are some of the barriers that we face, as we grapple with how to diversify and how to internationalize.

Dr. Georgette:
I just wanna be clear that you know the academic institution is still not diverse in terms of faculty and leadership, but the strategy in terms of recruitment. That's part of our human rights and part of our part of the policies in Canada so system and recruitment perspective, we're able to bring them in, but that doesn't mean the institution makeup has changed.

Dr Michael:
this one more thing since we're talking about recruitment. I don't know that there's been a significant shift in the criteria that’s used in recruitment. So, it's kind to give you a quick example. we'll we will diversify our pool, so it looks very good that now we're looking for like Latinos, we're looking for Blacks, and we're looking for this story, and then but the what we expect from the folks that are recruited is very much what is expected traditionally from white students who have the privilege of having multiple papers published and or maybe come from the economic backgrounds that give them an edge If you would the recruitment process. So, you know I understand diversification and I understand search committees. What I don't understand yet is how we're going to adjust the criteria for selection. Such that more people who are not in the institution become incorporated in our institutions.

Angelika:
Yes, this is absolutely important for everyone to understand, because we have the audience that is watching us today are those people that are making those decisions. We are lucky to have that audience, but these challenges need to be addressed, and it's not enough just to change the policy.

It's important to help those new records if it's to actually get used to new norms and help them to overcome those moments when they didn't have privilege, and this will open so many opportunities for the institution itself. So, my next question will be actually to you, Dr. Leslie, what can a SWOT analysis tell us about the internationalization and diversification of universities?

Dr. Michael Leslie
Let's just start with just the model itself and then I think my colleagues can take it from there. So, you know we can look at the strengths right. We can look at our weaknesses. We can look at opportunities, and we can look at threats. I mean that's basically what the model asked us to do right! So, I'll just I'm gonna take one from each area, and then let my colleagues sort of educating me. I think we could say, well one of the strengths that we have is that we are I’m using your example, Dr. Georgette, we're in a diverse city. you know we have a pool of people that we could probably recruit internationally to teach at our university. We have a reputation, we have a distinguished faculty and staff.
We have an infrastructure. So, those kinds of strengths so, and I'm sure there are others, and then the weakness part of it is we also have entrenched privilege and power, so that would make it so very difficult. That might be one of the obstacles. Then the opportunity that you mentioned earlier I think at the start of this was that you know people were living in a world that demands internationalization, to demand diversity. So, it's an opportunity to change to do something to meet that demand, and then the threat and that for me the threat. You use better words than I did Dr Georgette for this maybe both of you did Peter also the threat is that “Change” is a threat to power, the threat to profits, a threat to tenure. I mean you know it's there are very strong forces that would prevent us from wanting to make the kind of change that we need to make for the conversation.

Dr. Georgette
May I add to that very quickly I would say you know one of my favorite quotes that when I go I do any work. I always begin every presentation I do with this, which is: “Diversity is counting the numbers, Inclusion is making the numbers count” this isn't my quote, I just use it. It's a one from a Harvard professor, and I always say you know, if you are in a city that's, in even in the US came from New York, like from Peter Diversity. So, you can attract diversity, that's great. But, if it's sort of entry-level jobs, that's lovely, but we want to be able to see that diversity in the upper echelons of organizations. We want to see it represented by leadership teams you want to make sure that that people can see a trajectory for their careers in the organizations, and if they don't, then we're just ticking off boxes, you've got them there, but if you're hitting glass ceilings, and what I call “reinforced concrete”, then there's no inclusion.

So, there's the other thing that you touched on Michael, and it's so interesting because I literally had this conversation with a faculty member that was posting a job at an academic institution in Canada, and he was saying “you’re gonna be so proud of me, Georgette, I moved how they do, the job hostings and they have that statement that talks about inclusion. I moved it to the top so-”
And I said “dude, like, that's called ticking off the box. Let me ask you a question, do you think the University will look at somebody from some institutions in Canada that would be good schools but not necessarily?”
He said to me “probably they wouldn't let me look at that person”
I said, why not?
“Well, how do you know they're not like one of the top schools In Canada?”
I said, “So are you actively excluding that?” and he said “well, no”
I said “Let me ask: So, if I was that candidate and I was absolutely brilliant. But the reason I have to go to that school was that I had to take care of a parent, or my financial situation. I was brilliant, but my circumstances meant that I have to go to that school because it’s closer to home because I had to take care of sick parents or whatever. And so I chose that academic institution for personal reasons. That didn't mean that I was less brilliant. I just couldn't go to the talk at your academic institution because I couldn't go to like UVC or Alberta, to do my PhD. So did you just literally take me out of the search pool, because you actually missed that on a brilliant candidate, so are you actively excluding as a result of that”
Are we rethinking? Do you think the credentials back to your point, Michael? I think you touch on this, Peter. Do we need to rethink how we are looking at candidates, and how we are actually, maybe brown broadening our searches when we're thinking about how it hired, because we think this is what qualifies as excellence but is that really what qualifies as excellence? is actually right or because if we don't do that? We're gonna continue to get that homogeneous group that looks exactly the same, and we're not going to be able to diversify perspectives because of the circumstances that hold us back I'm sure Peter has more to this.

Dr. Peter Rios:
Oh, that's good. I think the points are so valid and strategic. I would add also to the swat analysis for our listeners today another tool to actually pick up the swat analysis Futurists. We use what's called STEEP analysis. Scanning and understanding what's going on in those sectors of society. So, as Sociocultural, what are the demographic shifts what is going in and out of the culture. Technological advances or changes or disruptions. Some organizations in the corporate world have issues, management units right, and they do this. They're strictly just scanning all day long the issues in these sectors. The first is ‘E’ is Economics. So, what are the economics? Michael talked about.

It is the higher head. Economics is so important, right? Many institutions are tuition-driven institutions. So, you know, the economics are driving decisions. The other ‘E’ is the Environment. So, you know whether you're going green, whether the environment is toxic, so on and so forth. The last one ‘P’ Political, the political landscape of your country, or of your organization.

So, when we think of those 5 things as you're doing the swat analysis, you know those could be tools to, you know, to add to your toolkit, I will use T real quick out of the 5, Technology that has been a disruption and hiring correctly. You know something but online education. Well, those institutions that are specifically tuition-driven, and did not get ahead of the curve on online education are now struggling, trying to train faculty trying to put an online platform, trying to partner with OPM: Online Program Managers. So many things, but they're already behind the curve. And so, when you think of innovations change. These are areas that could help you in your swat analysis. I want it to get very practical there, going back to the previous question,
I kept reflecting on leadership. I always go back to leadership, I don't think it's the only way to change. But I do think leaders are major stakeholders in institutional change. We need to talk about our board of trustees. Our board of trustees are so important, and usually, the Board of Trustees reflect the history, the legacy of the institution. We need to diversify our board, you know, with other people besides men, that were besides those who you previously graduated, and the board of trustees, as they are becoming more and more diversified, can keep the President and the president's cabinet and the provost, and their cabinet accountable, and vice versa. I think that the accountability piece is so important let's face it even in our own personal lives, as leaders if we don't have accountability, we fall sometimes into old habits. We go back to resorting to what we know, what's higher-end gonna do It's gonna fall back to being biased to be in-discriminatory to being exclusive, even though we say we're So inclusive. So those are a few pieces I wanted to throw out there.

Angelika:
Thank you so much, everyone, for your incredible input.
Also. But my next question will be very practical also for students. So, and still as well students and staff because we didn't have one too many, because we want to make sure that everyone who is listening right now can know what to do practically when they face any sort of inequality, or discrimination while being a member of staff or a student. And the problem here that I've faced and many of people I know, have faced in academia, in top universities. It doesn't matter, it's still there is that those violations are so minor that it's very difficult to spot them. and sometimes when you're trying to gather the evidence it against so, Professor, that has been really racist, but it's been done in such situation, where you can’t really put the fact together. But the feeling is there, the atmosphere is there. For example, there are certain situations when there is a privilege given to students of a certain color, of a certain race, of certain political beliefs, or of certain religious beliefs. This is a real situation, and unfortunately, it happens, even as I said, at Top Universities. So, what do you think should be done by a student or a member of staff when they face such levels of discrimination?

Dr. Georgette Zinaty:
I personally have experienced it publicly. And I've actually addressed it publicly, but it was not so much around sort of a race issue, because of course, I'm what I’m gonna call white-passing. So, although I'm actually considered a visible minority in Canada, it was much more around my gender. So as a senior executive at the university, I was presenting as a team member of the senior leadership team. so, I wanted you to understand. This is a member of this is group that's like 7, or 8 that ran the entire campus University. So, one of them, I think, at the time I was the most senior female and I was presenting on my portfolio, and right after our CIO so he presents, I present, public form Livestream and as soon as I finish presenting an older white general in the audience, ask the question: What are your qualifications for your position?
Yeah, that's right Peter, your face, that's how the audience in that room was like. I hear people murmuring “Did you just ask for her CV?”
And then so I smile, and I say, thank you so much for your question, So I decided to take the floor and took 3 to 5 min, maybe 4 to 5 min to talk about my experience, and I tell him how brilliant I was, and how are my previous roles.

I said, “Does that answer your question?”
He went on: “Yeah, thanks.”
“Thank you for asking”
And that we went on to the real business. I actually tell the story often, because when I talk about empowerment, and I talk about this with women, I talk about how you own the floor, And how can you can use a woman a moment of adversity, as a teaching moment, and I say to them, I could have just fallen apart. I could have gotten really upset. I could have said I'm sorry, I could've gotten really defensive, and I would have had every right to. But I decided to actually use it to my advantage and bring up my market value. And let me tell you every time he saw me he remembered me and he was very nice, and so then we did the presentation. And then I just remember my Vice President, who was sitting in an asset, saying “Great job”. When I left my phone was just blowing up with a way to go. Congratulations, but the point is if I didn't speak up for myself.

I'm not sure if anybody else would have that in that room because I could tell her I’ll take it back the charging state that's out of line. He just didn't know what to say so I took control. So, I think sometimes we have to also think about how do we use these as individuals.
If no one else is gonna call something out, how are you gonna use this as a teachable moment yourself? Because you know, you hope that someone's gonna speak up for you but if they don't, how are you gonna own it,

Dr. Michael Leslie:
That's actually brilliant. I mentioned to you that my work now is to move more into the domain of being. And so, what you said Georgette is really spot on, and I think this perhaps addresses a portion of your question Angelika, because we come from where we're not powerful. We come from, where you have to put up with. We come from where we are vulnerable. We come from where we are weak. It can't change, it can't be done. I mean that's kind of instilled in us, and this is a lot of truth to that I historically. I mean you know there's no question about it. But I think the opportunity is to come from when we're interacting with people that we are actually their equals. That we are knowledgeable that we are actually powerful. When in my own experience, I found that and I'm not as perhaps as skilled as you as you are interested in navigating because of conversations, I'll admit that I've come from indignation. You can't address me this way. For example, people who have this, wanted to call me by my first name in meetings when everyone is being addressed as doctor.

So, my point is very much in the line with what you've said, Georgette. It's a different place to interact from when you encounter oppression, or when you encounter what we would perceive as disrespect or dishonor, or any of those things, and mine is to be combative. I'll add one more thing to this that might be useful to students, because they're the really the most vulnerable in our institutions, is the value of alliances. When I was fighting for tenure, I brought in, and they were making noises about not giving it to me. I brought in a Latino professor from sociology. I brought in an African American professor from his field of history, you know we So you know we had to sit down with the administration if you would. And so that's my approach to it after saying well if you wanna you're gonna fight. I'm gonna fight, too. But coming from the position of you know I we can win, rather than this is tough here, and these people are terrible, and I don't know what to do about it. Alliances are critical of other people who are in a similar situation.

Angelika:
I love this because those are you. Dr Michael and Dr. Georgia has different approaches to fight it, but they are all working, and I believe that comes from being different personalities in every different personality has its own way. Most important here is not to be shy, and own your power, and own this particular power. You have to conjure it, and as we have just a few minutes left, what so? What would be your last advice? I think, Dr Peter, for everyone who is watching us who is trying to control this.

Dr. Peter:
In my own research. the folks that I interviewed were Latinx and leading institutions at the highest level. They talk a little bit about what my colleagues are saying from a minoritized perspective, and I say minoritize on purpose, not a minority because we have been minoritized. You usually are working twice as hard to be considered half as good. I think you need to be comfortable within yourself, and do not allow imposter syndrome to take a hold of you.

I think, as minoritized groups. we need to work with each other so that you know black folks are over there, Latinx, Asian, women, LGBTQ. We need to come together, and even with white allies, they know enough. And that's where I think the accountability piece that I mentioned earlier is so important. But, as my colleague said, as a student, as an administrator, and as a faculty, I have definitely addressed the issue head-on. I think that having if you're a student and you don't feel like you dare, maybe you come from a cultural background where it's actually inappropriate to confront power right! that's a real thing. Then get with Michael, you know, Dr Michael, and Dr Zinaty are saying about, Get a faculty member who you affiliate with, get somebody who's in power to stand next to you and to help you out, and to advocate for you. I think that would be a strategic way. So, my recommendation is, Be confident in who you are. Remain humble but confident and those are 2 dynamics that we all deal with on a daily basis, and know that you are a person of value and that you were created with a calling. That you have a purpose in life, and your creator, I don't know I'm a person of faith, that's how I believe my creator created me, with a calling and a purpose, and I'm here on a mission, and actually, my mission is to help you to get to your next level. So, let's work it out let's leverage our differences to help one another out and strengthen each other. Thank you so much.

Angelika:
I love that this is really. And just before we finish this, I wanted to ask everyone in this panel to share their exciting use of their books that have been published, and so that our audience can actually read and explore and discover so much more than hasn't been discussed today within your scope of work.

Georgette’s:
This is my book called” Why not you?” And you'll see my hands like this on the cover because I'm always saying to people on the other side when I'm talking to women, “why not you?”
This is a book that really talks about my research. It talks about all of the work that's happening certainly in the impact of Covid and the research really about the scarcity room and the lack of ability for us to move up in senior leadership jobs, and 100% of the post seats from the book go to support women helping empower women. So, thank you for that
Available on: www.Whew.com

Dr. Peter Rios:
The Latinx leadership experience in higher education. This book stems from my own experience in higher education, and really wanting to understand if other people of color and other minoritized groups were having a similar experience, or was I the only one in the desert, and utilizing critical race theory, Latina, Latino quit theory, and just letting their narratives speak for themselves. So, the kind of like what we're talking about earlier combating Meta narratives saying this is not who we are, this is not what We're about and so yeah please it's on Amazon. It's on all the major Barnes and noble, so on and so forth. And you can also go to our website at Peterrios.consulting.com.

Dr. Leslie:
Thank you. This is the Spanish version of my book it's called Como Lograt lo Que Realmente Dias, and it's also been published in Mandarrin, and in English. The whole book is just based on my experience. I call it lessons from my life. and it has that element, someone who has faith, is a role in my success, at least in life. Then some practical instructions for how to sort of tap the resources that you already have within you, so you can move to your goals. So, it's on Amazon, so you can find easily find it there.

Angelika:
Thank you so much. I was really honored to be joined by leaders in their fields. advocates for diversity and inclusion. Really extraordinary, brilliant minds. Thank you so much. Dr Georgette had. Dr Leslie, Dr Peter. Thank you so much for your time today, and I believe that it's been extremely valuable for every listener, every viewer who has joined us today.