Haitham Shtaieh
Hello, and welcome to the WHERS Conference. Very happy to have you all hope that you are enjoying the conference so far and that you are enjoyed all the networking and all material that is being presented to you. Our topic today is the impact of student support facilities and its impact on students satisfaction. With us today is a great speaker, Mr. Steven M Sweeney. I have to read the bio so I don't miss anything. So Mr. Sweeney spent 45 years serving the higher education community specializing in hospitality and support services. Mr. Sweeney was the president and the CEO of Chartwells. Chartwells is a food service contract company for over 20 years, serving 300 campuses throughout the United States. The company sales were $2 billion dollars, and that's billion with a B and 25 thousand employees that worked under Steve Sweeney. Steve was a board member of the Compass Group, presided over campus food service forum for over 15 countries. Steve is also a distinguished professor at John Wills University specializing in culinary and hospitality studies. In 2005 Mr. Sweeney was presented with the Silver Plate Award. It's a food service industry highest award for business excellence. Mr. Sweeney. Welcome to the WHERS conference. Very, very happy to have you.

Steven M Sweeney
Thank you Haitham. Thanks for that generous introduction. I appreciate that.

Haitham Shtaieh
Absolutely. I hope I gave you enough justice for your quiet accomplishments.

Steven M Sweeney
Absolutely. Well done.

Haitham Shtaieh
So today we're talking about student satisfaction and really, it's a broad topic and we're trying to present it in a way that is suitable for both universities in the United States, but then also globally. And of course, most of our discussion today is going to be when the students are outside the classroom. So, we're not going to talk about research, we're not going to talk about curriculum. We're basically going to talk about students, their experience on campus, student life, and whether those students are resident students that actually live on-campus, or they can use to their classes. So, my first question you is, in your opinion, when we talk about facilities and student services, what are we really talking about?

Steven M Sweeney
Okay, I break it down into really two categories. Basically, one category is the bricks and mortar, the physical plans, what students actually see when they come to campus, which is absolutely huge because just remember, when students come to campus for the first time, they're choosing a university. They are probably 16, or 17, 18 years old. They're very impressionable, and they don't necessarily have a long-range view of life. It’s the next year, maybe the next four years. So they're very impressionable. So, the bricks and mortar piece is very important. How does it look? How does it feel? What’s the cleanliness of the campus? The second piece of it is it is the people that make all that happen because obviously, we can have the best university, the best-looking facilities, but without the people, it's just not going to happen. And in our conversation, we'll get into some of the more specifics there. There is a buzzword that's floating around these days that I've seen, and it's called edutainment. So, to your point, it's about outside the classroom, and it's education plus entertainment. So, students, more so than ever, want an experience outside the classroom. And that's what we're here to talk about, is how do we give them that experience? And it comes down to the facilities, and it comes down to the people that are going to manage those, and how do we make it better for the student? Quality for them is a given. They definitely want quality. They definitely want an education. But they also want to have something that gives them a life experience outside of the education that they are going to receive in the classroom.

Haitham Shtaieh
I like how you phrase it, where we not only do give them education, but we also give them entertainment. I like that. I’m not going to say how many years, but you and I graduated from college a while back. If we can talk a little bit about how the campuses are evolved, say, over the 20 or 30 years. I know that students, each generation is different. You talk about generation. And start my generation lead, and their needs have evolved as well. But take us back a little bit.

Steven M Sweeney
Sure, I'm even going to turn the clock back even further because education for hundreds of years was purely about the classroom. So somewhere in the late 1800s, we introduced residential dining facilities, resident halls with dining facilities. And it was very basic. It was just three-square meals a day. That’s pretty much what we had up until 50-60 years ago. And then things started to pick up a bit, depending on the country. Some countries were a bit more developed in this area, some not so much. But to your specific question about what it looked like 30 or so years ago, that's when it really hits its stride, and students were looking for so much more than just getting the classroom experience. And let's face it, universities, and admissions, it became a very competitive industry to get students on campus. Education, universities. There was an expansion 30 or 40 years ago, a lot of universities opened, and it became a very competitive place. And I think today it becomes even more competitive because we've seen, since Covid, the last two years, we've lost three plus percent of enrollment in students. Who knows what the fall of 2022 is going to look like? So, the school year, 2022, 2023.We're seeing that maybe another 3%, plus we've got rising inflation. So, to answer your specific question, the last 30 years, it was very basic 30 years ago. I think every decade it picked up momentum.

And now what we have is a very competitive environment where students are looking at the stuff beyond the classroom. They want an experience and back to the buzzword of edutainment. They want a bit of entertainment outside of the classroom. And let's also put in there that it gives them a skill set, it gives them life experiences. They’re coming from more than just education. What happens to them when they graduate? Are they going to have the social skills? So, let's not forget about that piece, too. But the look and feel of campuses have totally changed. They’ve gone through a growth spurt. And let's get into maybe some specifics of some of the locations, for example, athletic facilities. And I think you've seen some of these on some of the campuses that we've been on. It’s incredible to see you walk in the front door and there's a rock-climbing wall. Now, have we seen students on that rock climbing wall? Not necessarily. However, it's the bang and it's the wow. Dining facilities. I would put them up against any fabulous food court restaurant. You get food 24/7. You get it delivered to your room. You can get it in the entrance hall, to the residence hall. Residence halls themselves, they look more like hotels these days. Beautiful marble foyers. There’s a concierge station. There’s food, there's lounging spaces, you can plug into the Internet. It’s like a hotel lobby. When you walk into a residence hall, there are private baths for each room. Now, this obviously depends on where the university is in their growth cycle, but those are just a couple of examples of what we're seeing out there that's beyond the educational experience. Things like parking also becomes important. Some of the feel-good things, parking, for example.

Haitham Shtaieh
So let me just interrupt here for a second. How competitive higher education market is right now, especially in the United States and maybe around the world?
But part of that competitiveness is there like a business sense to those universities for their facilities to be state of the art because they are competing. And also, the second part of the question is in terms of, once again, I talked about the business case, if a student just goes to class and then goes home versus the student that actually lives on campus. So just walk us through the business case for those two students.

Steven M Sweeney
Sure. First of all, business case. Students, it's the way they choose the university. So, let's put a couple of statistics out there.

Number one, when a student comes to university, get a freshman class. One-third of that freshman class will most likely not make it to the sophomore year. That’s just a general statistic that's out there. So, there's one-third that won't see the sophomore year. How do we keep them on the campus? Business case, you got to think to onboard that student to get them through all the testing, to get them on campus, to get them in a room, to get them on a dining plan, and then you lose a third of them. So how do we keep those students on campus? You’ve got to also look at the way students choose a university. The number one buying criteria for a student when they go to university is they look at the ranking of the university. So just simply put, most ranking systems, 50% is academic. So put that in a bucket. Half of it is academic. It's what you get in the classroom, which we talked about.

The other 50%, I would say, is mostly the feel and the look of the campus, which is what we're talking about here in this particular track. 20% is graduation rates. Very important. So, graduation and retention rates, I feel that this particular track that we're talking about, which is the facilities and student satisfaction definitely plays into that 20%. Out of that other 50%, there's things, what's it going to be like when I graduate? Am I going to get a job? But I would argue that all the things that we're talking about in terms of student satisfaction, facilities, all the feel-good things. Give you social skills. It’s one thing to get a job, but you've got to have, in terms of the business case, clearly 20% of their buying criteria area has to do for sure with the facilities, the look, and the feel, and the edutainment of the middle piece, if you will, using that combined word.

Haitham Shtaieh
I love that word.

Steven M Sweeney
Yeah, that is what students are looking for. And I'd also say to universities, I'd say you've got to look beyond the typical business model. And by then, I mean, let's say you have a dining facility. It’s not just the students. What happens when school is closed? Why can't you do weddings? Why can't you do receptions? Why can't you teach food sciences in the dining service? You got to think outside the box because

Haitham Shtaieh
You have just about the facilities, you have the resources, and your overhead remains the same. So might as well.

Steven M Sweeney
And you're reaching into the community. So, it's not just about the students. I’ve seen campuses where they blended the dining facilities where they'll have a lot of their retail spaces, so their food courts, if you will, a lot of their retail. It’s really in a very blended area with the community. So, you might be in a smaller remote area. You’ve got a sizable group of students. That is your mainstay. But then you've got the community that feeds into that as well. And they will come onto the campus. And it's good for the campus. It’s that town-gown relationship. I don't know if that necessarily translates across the world, but it's how does that university relate to the community that they're in and the relationship that they have with that community.

Haitham Shtaieh
That community outreach is exactly what you're referring to. So, Steve, let me ask you when we're talking about this, would there be a difference between, say, if an institution is a state university or a government university as it's referred to in the rest of the world, versus a private university? When it comes to student satisfaction and student services, do they operate different? Is, there any differences, or similarities? What are your thoughts?

Steven M Sweeney
Sure. As it relates to our topic, I do believe that there's a bit of a difference. Numbers will show that there's about a 16% spread between public versus private. In terms of spending, obviously, the private is spending a little bit more on the entertainment piece of a student experience on campus. And it's because they can public universities are under the public eye. There’s a lot of voices that need to be heard

Haitham Shtaieh
And maybe regulations as well.

Steven M Sweeney
Regulations, a fair amount of criticism in terms of what do you need that program for, what do you need that rock climbing wall for? why do you need that sort of thing? But you got to remember the demographic that we're working with. So, it runs the whole gamut. Having said that, I want to give a fair amount of credit to the public university as well, because also a large part of students buying criteria is price-value relationship in anything that they do could be anything on campus or off campus. The price value plays into it to a large extent. Private universities generally are much more expensive. Public universities, because they're funded by usually the government or the municipality, is not as expensive. So, it depends on perfect world.

You got all the money in the world, you go to a private university, you go to the best that there is out there but that's not reality. So, it's to know where you are fit. Our message really is whether you're public or your private, you have to maximize your opportunity in this area in order to keep students on campus. And let's not forget that demographics are saying that we're losing over 3% of students coming to university every year. Covid got something to do with it. Online has something to do with it. The emphasis of you need a college education, that voice is not as loud as it used to be. There’s a saying out there that the only thing that's more expensive than a college education is not having a college education. We don't hear that so much anymore. But public versus private. I want to say I think you have to choose what's right for you and what's best value for you. And like anything else, what you put into, you're going to get out of it. But we also want to make sure that we attract the best student and keep the best student, which is what our track is about. How do we keep that one-third of students that we're losing every year? We want to keep them for the whole four years or five years or whatever their program is.

Haitham Shtaieh
Yeah, you mentioned online and you mentioned COVID. So if we could spend just a few minutes on that. What we've seen the last two years is that really universities, I mean, the whole world was put to a test, but since we're talking higher rate, let's stay with it. Universities found themselves in a situation where they had to continue their mission, but they had to do it online. Now, as far as the online, and I'll be honest with you, because from a personal experience, there are some students that absolutely loved the online experience, and they loved it so much that they wouldn’t have it any other way. And there were some students that couldn't wait for the face-to-face or the classroom experience to get offline and go to live classes. Do you think that the online experience, it’s going to stay with us for a while since it's proved that it can work, at least from a technology standpoint?

Steven M Sweeney
We need another couple of hours to answer that question, but I'll give it my best shot. I think everyone's going to have an online component, every university having said that, we got to go back to the Oxford education model which has been around for hundreds of years. I don't think the Oxford education model or where students go to a classroom and learn, I don't think that's going to change the same thing as for business. I mean, a lot of people are working from home. I think there's something about the camaraderie, the interaction, the human interaction, the touch, and the feel that you get. And of course, going to university is more than the classroom. It is about learning about how to interact with others, life experiences, all of those things, building friendships.

And I would say to the universities, you just can't hang it up and say we're just going to go to online because I think that's the wrong road to go down. I think there's a happy medium and for different universities, it's going to be different. And I think they have to open themselves up, look inside and say what's right for me. I will say that numbers show going back to business Case. and we have a university here in the States, very well-known University of Phoenix, who has tens of thousands of students, lots of them,

Haitham Shtaieh
I believe they're strictly online. I don't know if they have any campuses. I could be wrong though.

Steven M Sweeney
Huge. Yes, you're right, huge. They do have a brick-and-mortar presence, but the most of their students are online. They have the highest dropout rate of most universities of their size, one of the highest, 33% retention. So, they're losing two-thirds. Okay. And that's because people need human interaction at the end of the day is our view. And that is part of preparing young adults to go out and be in the world. And that's why universities do programs overseas, international studies, bringing students into their country, doing we're living in a much smaller world than we ever lived in before. And if you're going to stay home on your couch and turn on your computer, you're not getting the best bang for your buck on a college education. You can get that piece of paper, but is it going to get you remember one of their buying criteria is what happens to me after I graduate? Do I get the good job? Do I keep the good job? And you need the social skills, you need the interaction skills, which is everything that we're talking about. It’s the student services, the feelgood component, that's absolutely key. So, the future, there's a few wild cards out there.

What’s Covid is going to do. Thank God universities had that online component so they could continue. If you ask students that went to university, are they happy staying home and doing online? Not really. They don't have the interaction. Most universities have sports. I don't know how you do that from your couch. So, I think a modification and a happy medium is somewhat there to stay. But I'll go back to enrollment is dropping by 3% a year. It’s very competitive environment. You’ve got to look at yourself as a university and say, where do I fit? And I think you need to find what your true mission is. What do you want to be about?
And my view is that Oxford model, coming to university, sitting in a classroom, leaving the classroom, that I don't think is going to change anytime soon.

Haitham Shtaieh
Yeah, I think you made some good points. I was talking to a university president once and we were talking about the experience, exactly what you were talking about, that you get outside of the classroom. Yes, I go attend my chemistry class or I go attend my biology class, and I learned that piece of it. But there is something out there, I’m sure you heard of it they call it the Jeffersonian model, referring to Thomas Jefferson, where when students are going to these schools, especially the liberal arts schools, where they're actually building a character, they're building that person, that person is going to come out as a chemist or a computer engineer, but there are some other things that went into that person that had nothing to do with computers or had nothing to do with chemistry. So, I was very happy also to hear you talk about ranking and because this is why we are here and when students are in a university interacting with everything that we just talked about,
How do we know that this is a quality item or a mediocre item? Does that make sense?

Steven M Sweeney
Yeah, it's participation. What do you hear from students? And students are very vocal. They’re well-traveled, they’re not quiet people, they’re very worldly, they know quality. Quality, by the way, let's put it on the table. Quality is a given. You’ve got to be better than quality. So they will tell you by participation, you will find out quickly, and you will find out by your attrition rates whether that is the way they like things. But students are very vocal, and they'll let you know. They’re at that age where student government. Most campuses have student government set up and they will vote on things and let you know how things should be run. And that on most campuses, there's at least one student, if not more than one student, on the president's advisory council. So, they do have a voice. They’re paying a lot of money.

They want a quality education, and they want it their way. Let’s face it, there are going to be modifications to the model. There’s no question there will be modifications moving forward. I think for people and universities to survive, there has to be modifications. Will they be that different? I’m not so sure. I think that we still want to follow a lot of the models for a couple of reasons.
One, the infrastructure is there. One, we've got the infrastructure, and it's proven to be a good model. I think one thing that's important to know is that students will always go to university for their degree. For that piece of paper. I got my master's, whatever. They’ll go for that. But what's going to keep them there is what we're talking about today,

what we're talking about in this track, that's going to keep them on the property, which I think gets back to the business case, get back to how do they feel student satisfaction, how do they tell their come to this university?

Let's not forget, what was it, the late 80s? We saw a lot of when we had the economy around, the world was not so hot.

We saw a lot of small universities close their doors because they couldn't adapt. A lot of closures and a lot of joining up of universities they just couldn't survive
So, I think people have to keep an open mind and do a little edutainment

Haitham Shtaieh
I love that one. So. for the next question, I need you to grab that crystal ball.
I'm sure you have one around you there somewhere. Yeah. And earlier when we talked about the evolution of student services and how universities look. You surprised me, and you took me back to 1800, which was quite impressive. But if I would ask you to try to predict. What the next, 20-25 years would bring, what would campuses look like, and what students would look like, for that matter?

Steven M Sweeney
I think there's definitely going to be change of foot. There’s no question there's going to be change of foot. I wish I could tell you exactly. This is what Steve thinks is going to happen. And I think that there will be modifications on campus, and I think those that are willing to adapt and take a fresh look are going to be the survivors. And I think that there is a fair amount of overspent and waste in certain areas that maybe they could put towards better. I think people have to take a fresh look, and it comes down to knowing your customer. So every university is different. Every university attracts a different type of student. And I think if they take a step back and they say, okay, let's go through and assess what's going on in the classroom, what's going on in terms of our facilities, our student services, our student satisfaction, let's assess everything that we have and let's see what we need to make modifications. So the future, I think the demographics are saying we still may be in a bit of a slide. In terms of the last two years, we've lost over 3% each year of students coming in. Unfortunately, I think fall of 2022, we're probably going to lose another 3% because there are many jobs out there without people. Usually, you go to university so you can make more money.

Haitham Shtaieh
So you can get a job.

Steven M Sweeney
Get a job, make more money. Now entry level is $15 an hour, plus plus plus. There are a lot of companies that are benefits. Day one, great pay. Why go to university? The labor market, I think, is going to continue to be strong. COVID is still going to have an effect on how do we manage through that. So we still have to have our online. But I think anyone who's been in business, there's two ways you can approach situations like this. You can either cut your way out of it, you can cut cut cut, that you can get to your number or wherever you need to be, or you can grow your way out of it. And you become more attractive and bring on more students. And that's what this track is telling people, is that you know what? We want you to grow your way out of it. Think outside the box. Outside of the box is what yeah, think outside the box. You’re not going to be everything to everybody but pick those one or two things that are going to make a difference. Look at yourself in terms of everybody has peer institutions. They all do, and they all know who they are. What’s going to make you different than that peer institution so that when you get that student, you're going to keep those students beyond the first year, and you're going to have a full freshman class. We’ve seen a lot of creative things that are out there, and I think people are just going to have to get more creative. It’s going to be the survival of the fittest. And I think people have to grow that. Don't cut your way out. You cut your way out, you're going to be history.

Haitham Shtaieh
Absolutely. Well, Steve, I think we're coming to the end of a great conversation and great insight into the student experience. Like we said in the beginning, of this segment, which is student experience outside of the classroom. But I think I like the way how you brought it into where it's almost as important as your experience inside the classroom. Because at the end of the day and I've heard this term used so many times, that when students graduate from college, they'll tell you that those were the best four years of my life, because of exactly what we're talking about before they get that job and start going to work in the morning and coming home at night and starting a family and buying a house. Those four years are precious, I think.

So, Steve Sweeney, thank you so much for being with us today. And we look forward to having you on again. And definitely, as we said in the beginning, this segment will live on the Internet, on our website. You could watch it as many times as you'd like, ask your question to Steve Sweeney, and just get engaged. So, thank you very much, Steve, and thank you, everybody. Goodbye.

Steven M Sweeney
Thanks, Haitham. Bye.

Haitham Shtaieh
Thank you.